How are they different?
I know that everyone wants to forget about the Steelers’ Super Bowl loss, and move on to the NFL Draft. And I promise to start talking about the Draft soon enough. However, there’s one final thought about the Super Bowl that’s been lingering on my mind, and it just won’t seem to leave.
Was it just me? Did anyone else get a terrible feeling of deja vu when watching the Steelers lose Super Bowl XLV to the Green Bay Packers?
Some fans may not be old enough to remember the last time the Steelers lost a Super Bowl. After all, it was 15 years ago. So a 25 year old Steelers fan would have only been 10 years old the last time we experienced this.
So for those who don’t remember Super Bowl XXX, let me take you back in time.
The Steelers were facing the hated Dallas Cowboys. This was the Cowboys team that featured Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin, and Emmitt Smith. Legends all.
The Cowboys were favored in the game, and the Steelers felt disrespected entering the game because nobody believed they could win.
As it turned out, not only could the Steelers hang with the Cowboys, but they ended up dominating them.
The Steelers had approximately an 8 minute advantage over the Cowboys in their time of possession. They rushed for over 100 yards, while holding Emmitt Smith and the vaunted Cowboys’ rushing attack to only 56 net yards on the ground. They forced the Cowboys to punt more times than the Steelers punted. The Steelers also had approximately 50 more yards of total offense than the Cowboys.
Anyone reading the statistics from the game would probably assume that the Steelers won the game. Unfortunately, that was not the case.
Everyone on the Steelers played a great game…..except one player. We don’t actually say his name on this blog. It’s officially banned. Instead, we simply refer to him as “He whose name is not to be spoken”.
He whose name is not to be spoken
“He whose name is not to be spoken” threw three interceptions in the game. Two of those interceptions resulted in touchdowns by the Cowboys. Had it not been for those interceptions, the Steelers would have won their “one for the thumb” ten years earlier than they ultimately did when they won it at Super Bowl XL.
Because of those interceptions, “He whose name is not to be spoken” became the Bill Buckner of Pittsburgh sports. No other poor performance by an athlete had ever cost a Pittsburgh sports franchise so much. Until now.
Fast forward 15 years to Super Bowl XLV. Once again, the Steelers entered the game as an underdog. Once again, the team felt disrespected because nobody thought that they had any hope of winning.
If you look at the statistics from Super Bowl XLV, you’ll notice that the Steelers actually dominated the Packers statistically. Someone who hadn’t seen the game would probably assume that the Steelers won based on their statistical advantage.
Just like in Super Bowl XXX, the Steelers had approximately an 8 minute advantage in their time of possession. They rushed for over 125 yards, while holding the Packers to only 50 net yards on the ground. They forced the Packerss to punt more times than the Steelers punted. The Steelers also had approximately 50 more yards of total offense than the Packers.
Are you starting to see the similarities?
But just like in Super Bowl XXX, it was costly turnovers that caused the Steelers to lose a game that they dominated statistically.
So why are the two games viewed so differently? More importantly, why are the two quarterbacks treated so differently?
One quarterback had his name banned from this blog. It isn’t safe for him to set foot within the limits of Allegheny County. He probably doesn’t even attend player’s reunions because Greg Lloyd, Levon Kirkland, or Kevin Greene might beat him silly.
The other quarterback escaped a bad performance (his second in his 3 Super Bowl appearances) virtually unscathed. Despite his untimely, and ultimately extremely costly interceptions, I’ve heard few fans or journalists blame Ben for the loss. In fact, few even seem to think that he performed poorly.
Both quarterbacks threw interceptions that ultimately cost their team a Super Bowl victory. Yet one is still viewed as a pariah 15 years after his Super Bowl meltdown. The other was welcomed as a hero, mere minutes after his Super Bowl failure.
Big Ben even took personal responsibility for the loss. He admitted that his mistakes cost the team a ring. Yet he has not been labeled a goat, despite the Steelers’ loss.
I’m not saying that Ben Roethlisberger should be treated the same way that “He whose name is not to be spoken” was treated. Rather, I’m asking why their treatment was so different.
So that’s my question for you. How were the two performances different? More importantly, why are the two players treated so differently? Inquiring minds want to know.
Any thoughts?
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The play of Ben was bad in the first half, but he overcame some adversity and made a game of it until that last drive. You have to respect Ben’s resilience and he is already a proven winner.
The other fella was a douchebag to begin with and he hadn’t really done much but ride his defense all the way to the Super Bowl only to screw it up. He is not a winner. And he bailed for a huge contract that he did not deserve. Loser.
1A number of reasons.
1) He’s won 2 SB’s – the other guy didn’t so he gets more slack.
2) On the first SB – yes he played poorly but he played fabulous in the 3 playoff games beforehand including a game saving tackle in the Colts game. He has also orchestrated more 4th QTR comebacks than any other QB in first 7 seasons. The other guy wasn’t the type who won games for you. So again, he gets more slack.
3) On the INT’s, Ben’s 1st was due to a great play by Green (the GB lineman) not a bad read or bad throw – his second could be blamed both on Ben (for trying to force it in between 2 GB defenders) and Wallace (for not fighting for the ball). The other guy’s were both misreads (as I recall) where either he or the receiver failed to make the adjustment – I don’t know which.
Overall, I thinks it’s pretty much because Ben is simply a better QB and has already won 2 SB’s so he gets more slack.
2I agree with everything everyone is saying. The first QB was not proven, Ben is. The 1st QB was not a franchise player, Ben is. Ben is simply much better and has proven it.
3Like the other people said, Ben has already won two Super Bowls, and whatshisname, never did and never will. Ben will no doubt go on to win at least one more and may even tie Bradshaw or exceed Bradshaw in Super Bowl wins. The Steelers have to shore up their secondary. Yes Ben had two INTs and of course Medenhall fumbled. But the secondary got ran over like a tank all game long just like in the New England game. Pittsburgh was not able to stop a team with a great passing attack. It’s one thing to stop the run, but you also have to be able to stop the passing as well.
Oh and whathisname was paid off and Ben wasn’t.
4He who is banned was paid off. Ben, well, Ben is known to do dumb things in games. Some blame also has to lie with rashard for his fumble. Without it, the steelers likely score that touchdown to go up by one. The truth is that Ben does have two, which we kind of give him a pass for. However, should he lose another, I dont see the reception being the same.
5There’s another big difference that I intentionally didn’t mention in the article. I thought one of the readers would mention it, but nobody has so far. So I’ll mention it now.
Going into Super Bowl XXX “He whose name is not to be spoken” had the lowest interception percentage in NFL history. Not lowest of the year, but in HISTORY. He retired with the lowest career interception percentage in history. He absolutely NEVER threw interceptions. NEVER! So when he threw 3 interceptions in one game, it really seemed odd. Moreover, two of them were thrown directly to Larry Brown, and there was no Steelers player anywhere in the vicinity. He hit Larry Brown right in the numbers.
Perhaps the Steelers receiver ran the wrong route, and “whatshisname” was throwing to a spot. But they were such blatantly poor passes, that many still believe that he was paid to throw the game. There seemed to be no other explanation for how such an incredibly accurate passer could throw such terrible passes in such an important game.
Or perhaps he just choked.
6I always wondered whether the receiver ran the wrong route because there appeared to be no target other than the cornerback Larry Brown but the NYT has this quote:
“The ball just slipped out of my hands,” said [the unmentionable QB]. “It’s something that happens.”
The loss, then, of SB XXX was entirely on that guy’s head. The defense played an exceptional game against a very strong Cowboy offense. More than half the Cowboy points were almost entirely attributable to our QB.
In SB XLV the defense played a mediocre game. The awful coverage was not fully exposed because of at least seven drops by Green Bay receivers. The fumble by Rashard (caused by Legursky and Johnson’s missed blocks) was not Ben’s fault and his pick-6 was at least partially the fault of Kemoeatu’s missed block. Wally may have contributed to one of the other picks. Ben certainly had a poor day badly overthrowing Wally on a bomb, missing a few other throws and not targetting a hot Hinds Ward at all on the final, fateful drive, but he did not single-handedly lose the game.
And we all had reason to hope he could heroically drive down the field on his last possession to win the game as he did only two years ago.
7Guys –
I’m sorry to butt in again, but PIT didn’t give the game away. GB earned it.
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I remember SB XXX. “he-who-you-don’t-name” absolutely DID throw that game away. I remember, I wanted you to win that game, because I hate the Cowgirls too. In XLV that simply is not the case. In the first INT, Howard Green had great pressure and knocked Ben’s arm. Collins made a great speed play and return (Eerily familiar to many plays Troy P. has made in his career btw). In the second INT, Jarret Bush made a great read of the QB’s eyes. Period. On the fumble, Mendy was sandwiched between Pickett and a vicious helmet-on-the-ball hit by CM3. That’s called a forced fumble. NOT a giveaway.
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Now as to your statistical analysis – it’s flawed. GB was up 21-3 when Wood and Shields and Drive went out. (maybe 14-3 for Drive, I don’t remember, and I’m not going to look it up). “IF” those three critical players don’t go out I don’t see how the game would have been anything but a blowout. PIT couldn’t pass on GB’s secondary that was far and away better than PIT’s WR’s overall. PIT couldn’t run on Dom’s man pressure schemes designed to keep Ben in the pocket and the running lanes closed for Mendy. GB’s D (pre-injury) was far and away better than PIT’s O. Further, PIT’s D couldn’t stop GB’s 4 wides at all. When Drive went out, Swain came in. BIG difference. That evened things out.
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The point is that by the 2min mark of the 2nd Q GB had a HUGE lead. I’m not saying GB let Mendy rack up yards in the 3rd Q, but I, and every other Packer fan, would rather have the clock running than Big Ben throwing down the field against our depleted secondary.
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Further, if you are going to play the “if” game:
1. The only “if” play I saw from PIT all game was Ben overthrowing Wallace 1x in the 3rd Q for a TD.
Now to GB’s execution problems:
1. Jordy dropped a sure TD.
2. Jones dropped another.
3. Swain, Jordy, Quarless and ARod all were responsible for drops/overthrows problems in the 2nd half that would have kept the score so lopsided and the clock moving so much that it would have made the last 2 minute drill drive a moot point.
8-
I was reading on si.com last week that if you take out just 4 of the 7 drops, AR goes for 5td’s and over 450. “IF” those small things are changed, this game is a blowout.
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I’m sorry to be a jerk, and I know you don’t want to hear it, but it’s the truth. GB was the better team – on that day – and in general. They had a HUGE advantage in the skill positions all the way around, and exposed PIT.
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Ok. Rant done. Feel free to tear me to shreds if you want, but there’s a reason most national pundits/talking heads had the same take on the game that I just explained.
I hate the Cowboys and I watched the game and actually VHS taped it. Still have it. Both of the QB are totally different. We lost to the Packers becaue of our cornerbacks and we lost TROY somewhere along the way. Didn’t anyone wonder beside me where he was our last 2 games. We didn play our A game and the Packers did. They deserved to win, even though that punch to the face along with a few other calls weren’t right.
9Bearmeat,
This is a conversation about why Ben is treated differently than that other guy. It is not a discussion of whether the Packers deserved to win. Frankly, if you’ve read my coverage of the game, as well as the comments of the Steelers fans, they have been most gracious to the Packers. It was a well-deserved victory (although we all know that everyone in Green Bay was sweating bullets on that last drive).
So if you’re going to participate, please tell us why Ben is being treated so much more positively than that other guy, when they both did very similar things on a very similar stage. Thanks.
10First of you have to respect Ben for taking responsibility for the loss, the other guy, to the best of my recolection blamed the rest of the team and demanded a trade. Ben is still in his prime with alot of game left, the other guy was about done.
11Ben is treated better because he has actually won on the big stage. Twice. plus, it wasn’t solely his fault that the Steelers lost this year, it was a collective team failure. That certain other QB pretty much blew it on his own.
12It’s a really interesting point, but I think the similarities are a bit overplayed.
First, it was evident in both of Ben’s INT’s that he was trying to get it to a Steeler; the same could not be said of that other guy.
13Second, Ben has a history of playing at a very high level. The year that other guy handed off the Superbowl to the Cowgirls, he had passed for a career high 17 TD’s. Roethlisberger has a career high of 32 TD’s in a season with 11 INT’s, and has never had fewer than 17 TD’s. Interestingly, though, he has had exactly 17 four out of his seven years in the league, including this year.
Third, in all my predictions I stated that Ben’s turnovers would be the difference in the game. As great a quarterback as Ben is, he is more of a Brett Favre/John Elway type than a Bart Starr/Dan Marino. He’s a gunslinger whose determination and arm strength sometimes leads to interceptions. Against a strong pass rush and a talented secondary, anyone who didn’t expect that tendency to be magnified was kidding himself.
Bearmeat,
I understand your elation due to the fact that it’s been quite some time since you guys last won a Superbowl, but let’s not get carried away.
In the first quarter, Mendy had 33 yards on 5 carries. That’s over 6 yds/att and a pace that would result in at least a 125 yard game. So it wasn’t just in the third quarter when they were more worried about the pass that the Packers were unable to stop the run.
Also, in suggesting that it was only close because the Packers had several injuries, you’re conveniently ignoring the Steelers’ injuries. Nelson’s TD came against a CB who had just entered the game because of an injury to McFadden – significant much? Did Driver’s absence made a big difference? So did Sanders’ for the Steelers.
Bottom line was that it was a very close game. The Steelers lost and the Packers won; you should enjoy that. But don’t let your euphoria carry you away into irrational proclamations of dominance based on things that didn’t actually happen. What happened was you won a game by six points because of a +3 turnover ratio despite having fewer first downs, poorer pass protection, less total yardage, lower red zone percentage, dramatically less time of possession, and poorer overall special teams play. It’s a W, enjoy it, but it doesn’t equal “huge advantage” or “exposed PIT.” You can “coulda, shoulda, woulda” your way to dominance by erasing four dropped balls, but the bottom line is that if your defense has only one dropped ball, the Steelers have the trophy. Green Bay was much closer to losing that game than they were to dominating it, and (much more importantly) What Really Happened is that they won a nail-biter.
14I think that several of you have nailed the answer. As Dan pointed out, Ben has won games for us, and that gives him a bit of an advantage over another QB who doesn’t have the same track record.
And as Matthew points out, Ben is a gunslinger. We EXPECT him to throw interceptions. It’s just a part of who he is. He is going to try to make a play, even when it costs him a sack or an interception. He’s never going to be one of those “safe” quarterbacks who throw the ball away as soon as they come under duress. Sometimes, doing so might be smart. But it’s not how Ben plays.
To this day, there has never been any proof that “He whose name is not to be spoken” was actually paid to throw the game. So nobody knows for sure if he was. But personally, it really upset me that he threw 3 interceptions in one game, when his track record was totally different than that. One of the things that we trusted him to do was to NOT throw interceptions. And he violated that trust. Moreover, he violated it badly and at the worst possible time, on the biggest stage imaginable.
Contrarily, Ben has always thrown interceptions. So when he does it, we accept it and say that “that’s just Ben being Ben”.
15I believe the reason the Ben is treated differently is because of his level of play. Ben makes plays out of the pocket, and trys not to give up on plays, and the offensive line in not of the same calibler of the line that “the one who shalt not be mentioned” had played with. Both had great defensive help, but Ben’s track record shows when we have been down by more that two scores, we can come back (not saying Ben does it all, but he keeps the plays alive.) The only game that the QB that shall not be mentioned ever came back from a large deficit was in the Bears game that same year. That’s why I think he is treated differently. Also we probably do better with out our offensive coordinater who’s name I WILL NO MENTION.(TOO PREDICTABLE)
16As the others have said, it’s because Roethlisberger has had a lot of success before this, it wasn’t entirely his fault, and he’s the Steelers franchise Quarterback.
Neil O’Donnell had no postseason success and those picks seemed to be thrown directly to the defenders.
17Ok Don, fair enough.
And you guys are right – It WAS a close game… not a blowout. My point was just that if you are going to play the “IF” game, it can go both ways.
I don’t think Big Ben played that badly. He made 2 or 3 poor throws – against a Defense that has made QB’s pay all year when they don’t play lights out. Point is that for the most part, the throws just weren’t there. That’s because GB took them away.
I remember watching XXX. Your QB was just awful in that game. I’ve rewatched XLV a couple times. Ben wasn’t bad. If you want to see a “bad” QB performance from the playoffs – go look at Matt Cassell or Matt Ryan.
The SB losing QB in XXX was playing against an aging and limited secondary. Larry Brown had never had a game like that in his career beforehand, and he didn’t afterwards either.
Bottom line: PIT lost XXX. GB won XLV. There is a difference. And (as has been stated by others very well here already), Ben has had lots of postseason success; so he gets a pass from the national media (for now).
It took until this year’s loss to the Jets to question Brady’s playoff moxie – because of all his success before. I don’t expect anything different from the national perspective. If Big Ben chokes (and no, he didn’t choke in this game) in 3 or 4 playoff games in a row, THEN you’ll start hearing those whispers.
Good debate!
18Andy: You said “his” name! Noooooooooo….
Bearmeat: Yep, Packers earned it. No one is questioning it. The Steelers had to play a great game to keep pace with a team like that, and they did not. GB played very well.
Anyways, the Combine is coming up. Will you be discussing draft positions and potential future Steelers soon, Don?
19Dan,
Yes, I will be starting to discuss the draft soon. But I’m taking it slow. I need to recharge my batteries after a long season. Besides, we have plenty of time. The NFL Draft isn’t until the last week of April. That’s 2 1/2 months from now. We have plenty of time, so I am going to pace myself.
Besides, I prefer to let you guys hit all of the other sites, and then everyone comes on here repeating the same names that they read elsewhere. Then I come in an go completely contrary to the crowd and tell everyone why the names that all of the other sites are saying don’t make any sense.
I still remember in 2009 when everybody kept saying that the Steelers HAD TO draft Jarron Gilbert in the 1st round. Every Steelers message board had him as the guy the Steelers had to pick. I seemed to be the only one who said that Jarron Gilbert couldn’t play. I had actually seen him play several times, and he didn’t dominate playing against inferior competition. I don’t think anyone else had actually seen him play, yet everyone was pimping him. And as it turns out, he ended up being a journeyman who has played for 2 different teams and made only 2 tackles in his 2 year career, and he’s spent most of his time as a practice squad player. The NY Jets only activated him because another team was going to sign him from their practice squad.
But yes, I will definitely be talking about the draft. But I won’t be talking about the same players that everyone else does. And I’m going to pace myself so you all don’t get burned out before the draft actually gets here. We’ve got 2.5 months until the draft. There’s no hurry. I have a few other topics that I want to discuss first.
20You can’t compare a fully equipped Hummer (THE ROETHLISBERGER) to a Cevy Vega ( THe Jersey Devil). It’s apples and oranges.
THe Steelers made a few errors based on a some mishaps but with two minutes left they had a chance to go down the field and win it in the same manner they won the last one.
It happens. I blame it on the Gods of Pali lookout being displeased with my chants to the Koa spirit of Kamehameha..
Aside from that it really is SO OBVIOUS that we need a corner to go with Ike Taylor. Buy one or draft that kid from Miami. The LSU guy will be long gone so forget him.
If the Steelers remain collectively healthy next season (if there is one) there is no reason they won’t be in the thick of it mainly because we have the fully equipped Hummer and not the Vega (The only car that ever rusted on the show room floor).
21Jarron Gilbert? Who? I wanted Oher that year, But I’m happy with Hood.
22I had to look up Gilbert. Now I remember. People wanted him in round 1?
23Dan,
You may not have been pimping him, but a lot of fans were. It happens every year. There will be one guy that starts getting pimped on the message boards. But sadly, most of the fans who are pimping him have never actually seen him play.
I’m not sure who the player will be this year who gets all of the fan support. Perhaps Mike Pouncey. But one thing that I DO know is that the Steelers almost NEVER take the guy that everyone expects them to take. So it is probably more logical to assume that they WON’T take the guy that everyone is pimping than to assume that they WILL take him.
24It will probably be Mike Pouncey getting hyped. I’d like to have him, but he will be gone by #31, I think.
To whom it may concern: It’s important to remember that the Steelers won’t reach for a position. If there are no good CBs available, then the Steelers won’t go CB for the sake of getting a CB. Same thing with the OL, DL, or any other position. It’s also rare that the Steelers trade their 1st rounder to move up or down.
25You said it yourself, it comes down to personal accountability. Ben took responsibility for his mistakes, where “He whose name is not to be spoken” essentially tucked his tail between his legs, next to his sack on pay-off money (not to be confused the something else that should be there), and skipped town.
Taking personal responsibility for his mistakes, and not trying to displace it onto other players, says a lot about a quarterback.
26